Poker am Ende? Neuer Glücksspiel-Staatsvertrag : Allgemeines - 2

[Cashmandt Profil Website]

What's NOT Included in Anti-Gaming Legislation
A Legal Perspective
This weekend, just before Congress recessed, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-TN) finally snuck the mildest form of the antigaming legislation into an unrelated bill. The Safe Port Act provides $3.4 billion for U.S. port security and attached to that bill is a section making unlawful for banks to send money to Internet gambling sites or their intermediaries.

The bill passed both the House and Senate, meaning that it only awaits the president’s signature before becoming law.

Do not panic. First and foremost, this bill does not criminalize playing poker. In fact, the bill does not speak to the poker player at all.


http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_news/ne ... =PokerNews

[the mind Profil]

das gesetz, auch wenn es eigentlich kein richtiges gesetz gegen online-gambling ist, hat sein ziel m.e. schon erreicht: party und pacific/888 werden, sobald bush unterschrieben hat, keine echtgeld-spieler mehr aus den usa zulassen. naja, das ist wohl eine präventive maßnahme, denn vom neuen gesetz her dürften party/888 eigentlich alle spieler zulassen, die ihre einzahlungen z.b. mit neteller, click2pay etc. machen. die meisten anderen anbieter nehmen eine abwartende position ein, da die banken ja eh 270 tage zeit habe sich technische lösungen einfallen zu lassen. die neteller-aktie ist übrigens auch heftigst eingebrochen, m.e. nicht so gerechtfertigt wie z.b. der partygaming-absturz.

[quiz2006 Profil]

Hab das mal in einen anderen thread gepostet. sorry! unter News

quiz

hier nochmal:

Hi Leute!
Hab heute 04.10.2006 eine sehr beunruhigende Nachricht in der "Welt" gelesen. Demnach dürfen Pokerräume nicht mehr über die Kreditkarte Geld einiziehen (in denUSA). Da das aber bei den Amis diebei weitem meist verbreitetste Zahlungsmethode ist rechnen Experten mit einem Umsatzeinbruch von 7 Milliarden $ bei momentan 13 Milliarden. Fusionen von Pokerräumen und Reduzierung des Angebotes werden da wohl die Folge sein. Die Börsenkurse dieser Unternehmen sind wohl ziemlich eingebrochen (30-50%). Na mal sehn, wie sich das noch entwickelt! chin
CU quiz

[Cashmandt Profil Website]

Aha! Es tut sich was!

U.S. Gaming Prohibition Violates WTO Agreements

WTO Has Ruled Against the US in Past Cases Concerning Online Gambling

The United Kingdom is one of more than 60 nations in the world that passed laws to allow, tax, and regulate online gaming, including poker, on its soil. It’s the first truly industrialized nation to do so, as well as the richest. And as a member of the World Trade Organization, with millions of dollars at stake, it will soon have to decided to try to take on the strongest nation in the world.

The WTO has already ruled against the US for attempting to ban online gambling, and now that anti-online gambling legislation has made it through Congress, more WTO complaints will probably be filed. The U.K might find itself in that line. Read about the way it was sneaked through here, and what it means to online players here.

The WTO was set up to protect fair and free trade among its members, and it has ruled that it considers online gambling to be a product that should be freely traded. It’s hard to believe that the US won’t face more lawsuits now that it has taken a stricter approach at curbing online gambling.

A precedent has even already been established.

Tiny Waves

In 1994, Antigua and Barbuda was one of the first nations of the world to embrace online gambling, and since then the little island nation has become a hub of online businesses who have embraced regulation. Antigua and Barbuda joined the World Trade Organization as a charter member in 1995.

So far, 30 companies are licensed by Antigua and Barbuda’s Division of Gaming. The Division of Gaming constantly monitors its licensees and suspends licenses whenever it finds infractions. The rules that the Division of Gaming follows have roots in New Jersey. Frank Catania of Catania Consulting Group, Inc. wrote most of the regulations. He’s a former director of gaming enforcement in New Jersey.

Antigua and Barbuda’s book operators have historically faced prosecution from the US government. Three founding members of World Sports Exchange were indicted for fraud, racketeering, and other things a few years ago. One of the members tried to fight the charges, but was found guilty and spent several months in prison. The other two members haven’t been back to the US since.

The arrests and the United States’ attempts at curbing online gambling prompted Antigua and Barbuda to file a complaint with the World Trade Organization in 2003. Antigua claimed that the US systematically violated the WTO’s General Agreement of Trade in Services (GATS) by trying to stop its residents from using services offered by companies located in Antigua.

It took a year, but the WTO ruled in Antigua’s favor and struck down the US’s appeals in 2005, writing that US had adopted "measures" that interfered with its obligation to provide free trade in betting and gambling services with Antigua and Barbuda.

Part of the US’s reasoning that claimed it was in the right to stop online gambling was that it believes that online gambling is morally wrong. The appellate body ruled that the US could not make that claim since it allows gambling on its shores.

To date, the United States has essentially ignored the ruling. The US Trade Office has said that it would not ask Congress to weaken the gambling provisions that has been in place since the Wire Act became law in the late ’60s, and has given Antigua and Barbuda the silent treatment with this issue ever since.

There’s no doubt that the size and economic power of Antigua made it easier for the US to ignore the WTO’s ruling. The future is hard to predict, but with so many dollars at stake, surely one nation will step up to the US and try to again swing away at this issue. It just may be one of the strongest nations in the world and one of our closest allies.

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_news/ne ... =PokerNews

[C.Rhodriguez Profil]

Ob sich wirklich soviel tut bleibt noch dahingestellt. Bin mir nicht ganz sicher ob, ob die WTO-Regeln wirklich verletzt werden. Ausnahmen zum Schutz der Bevölkerung sind ja erlaubt, so lange man nicht ausländische Firmen gegenüber den inländischen bevorzugt. Einziges Problem für die USA könnte sein, dass man Glückspiele in Casinos ja erlaubt und es dort nicht wirklich für nötig hält seine Bürger davor zu schützen.
Mal gespannt was das Panel sagen wird...

[Cashmandt Profil Website]

Ein Kommentar zur aktuellen Situation vom Direktor der WSOP

World Series of Poker director comments on Internet Gambling Bill
Nolan Dalla on the Internet Gambling Prohibition Act

I have read many public forums over the past few days. Until now, I have not spoken out publicly on the Internet Gambling Prohibition Act, and the new version of this law which was attached to the Ports Security Bill on Friday night, although my views are probably foreseeable.

I do not believe most of the members here quite understand the degree of damage this new legislation will have upon the online gambling industry — including sports wagering, poker, and affiliated businesses such as MadJacks, et. al.

Before I comment upon this legislation and its detrimental impacts, first I should disclose that I have been involved in the poker business for more than a decade. I was and am the Media Director for the World Series of Poker. I was, until yesterday, the Director of Communications for PokerStars.com — the second-largest online poker site in the world. I resigned my position based on legal advice. In 2004, I was the Editor of a sports betting magazine published by SportingBet USA. I also served as a guest handicapper at MadJacks for four years. Please note that the opinions expressed here are not those of the World Series of Poker, PokerStars.com, or anyone else I have been affiliated with. They are my own.

Once this bill is signed into law (possibly as early as Wednesday, Oct. 4), it becomes effective immediately. This is why 888, PartyGaming, and others are suspending US operations, effective immediately. News has already been released that .COM (money) poker games will not be available to US residents. However, .NET (free) games will continue uninterrupted according to reports....

http://www.eog.com/news/industry.aspx?id=9874

[guso0159 Profil Website]

Tag auch ...

Vom Casinomeister Bryan Bailey www.casinomeister.com kam folgende interessante Kommentierung der aktuellen Entwicklung in den USA.


The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006

If one were to believe the mainstream press, you'd think that this is the end of the line for online gambling for US residents. I guess the mainstream press understands this industry as much as the misguided right wing politicians who pushed this through do. Yes, they pushed this through the Senate on the tail end of the "Safe Port Act". It was underhanded, devious, and would have made any shifty politician applaud with pride. It was a disgusting manipulation of the American political system.

But this isn't the place to voice my disdain over the self-serving politicians with stupid agendas who are making decisions for American citizens. Nope. This is the place where I'll try to explain what this means to players, affiliates, and other concerned parties. And I'm going to make this brief as possible.

For one thing - this is not banning online gaming in the states. Don't believe the hype. There has been a panic amongst players, affiliates, and software providers that has embarrassingly gotten out of hand. This bill is "enforcing" certain provisions against "unlawful Internet gambling" and the key word here is "unlawful". There are no federal laws that make gambling online "unlawful". A few states have done this, but there is no Federal law. There is the "Wire Act" that the Department of Justice has claimed that they "feel" applies to sports betting on the Internet, but this has never gone to court.

The best thing to do is to read up on this. One of the best articles I've read so far was posted at Cardplayer.com. It was written by their legal team:
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_news/ne ... =PokerNews

You should also read I. Nelson Rose's review of the bill here: Gambling and the Law
http://www.gamblingandthelaw.com/columns/2006_act.htm

To affiliates, it's not the end of the world. Some webmasters are getting absolutely hysterical. There was even talk that the Federal Government can seize dot com domains if they have gambling related links on them in public view. Please put the bong down because that is total nonsense. If that's the case, why haven't they confiscated all of the "illegal" gambling sites dot com domains? And just because it's a dot com, it doesn't mean it's an American domain. Try to tell William Hill Casino.com that the feds want their dot com domain. I'd like to hear what they would have to say.

My advice to affiliates who reside in the states, you should consider moving your affiliate sites to a server not located there. Check these out:
Coreix.net
Rackspace.co.uk

If you are looking for legal advice, here is a link for the Law Offices of Ledger & Associates http://ledgerlaw.com/index.htm

Emery Ledger specializes in gaming law and is offering his services to the smallest affiliate to the biggest operators. He recently spoke at the CAC in Las Vegas.

His offices are in Newport Beach CA
Telephone 800-300-0001
Facsimile 800-398-5345

Last but not least. You can try and do something now. Here is a video by J. Todd of the Association of Professional Casino Webmasters. Click here to check this out.
http://www.apcw.org/law

Lest we forget - election day is only one month away. If you are not registered to vote, you have a screw loose. Get registered now before it's too late. Here are some sites to get you started:
America Coming Together (ACT)
Federal Voting Assistance Program
The National Coalition on Black Civic Participation, Inc.
The League of Women Voters
Rock the Vote
Smoke the Vote

Within the next week or so, I'll be posting information on who was responsible for this bill, who supported this, and who was against it. Once you arm yourself with that knowledge, you can begin writing letters on how you feel about this, and then take it to the polls.

It's never too late to voice your opinion. Some of these politicians need to be shown their rightful place.

[guso0159 Profil Website]

Ich nochmal ...

Der Beitrag scheint mir lesenswert.


http://www.casinos.ch/newsflashartikel2 ... key=143735


Und ich frage mich, ob ich wieder in der Werbung arbeiten sollte

[Cashmandt Profil Website]

Damit dürfte das Gesetz, wenn es denn so kommt, wohl ausgehebelt sein:

NETeller Will Continue to do Business with America

....

On Oct. 1, 2006, NETeller released an official statement on the matter:

“It is currently unclear how NETeller, a European company, with no assets, presence, or employees in the US, would be affected by this bill. Once the regulations have been written, NETeller will have a clearer view of which companies are affected, how those companies will be expected to comply, and any possible resulting impact on NETeller and its US facing business. NETeller continues to operate its business as normal...........


http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_news/ne ... =PokerNews

[Dawnrazor Profil]

Bush hat heute das Gesetz unterzeichnet, und ich sehe bei Party auch keine USAner mehr an den Tischen. Die Behauptung von Pokerstars, dass das Gesetz nicht auf Poker zutreffe, weil es Geschicklichkeitsspiel sei, ist im übrigen völliger Blödsinn. Der Ausgang jedes Spiels ist vom Zufall abhängig, und damit fällt Poker zweifelsfrei unter die im Gesetz genannte Definition.

[hinziboy Profil]

. Der Ausgang jedes Spiels ist vom Zufall abhängig, und damit fällt Poker zweifelsfrei unter die im Gesetz genannte Definition.

Ist das deine Meinung ?

[Dawnrazor Profil]

. Der Ausgang jedes Spiels ist vom Zufall abhängig, und damit fällt Poker zweifelsfrei unter die im Gesetz genannte Definition.

Ist das deine Meinung ?

Ja, und es fällt mir schwer zu glauben, dass vernunftbegabte Menschen eine abweichende Meinung haben können. Über den Sinn des Gesetzes kann man sicher streiten, über die Art und Weise, wie es durchgeboxt wurde, erst recht, und über die juristische Qualität auch (ich kenne kein Gesetz, an dem niemand etwas zu kritisieren hatte) - aber wie Pokerstars zu behaupten, dass Poker ein Geschicklichkeitsspiel sei und das Gesetz deshalb nicht zutreffe, ist einfach nur dreist, da im Gesetz der Ausdruck "a game subject to chance" verwendet wird und Poker unzweifelhaft dem Zufall unterworfen ist.

[Dawnrazor Profil]

Wenn sie die US-Amerikaner wirklich aussperren, werden die Turnier mit garantierten Preispools interessant, solange seitens Party keine Änderungen daran vorgenommen werden.

Jetzt, wo die Amerikaner weg sind, hätte man natürlich riesige "Overlays", wenn z.B. der Buyin von $215 bei einem garantierten Preispool von einer Million 500$ wert ist, wenn statt 5000 nur 2000 Leute mitmachen. Aber Party hat heute gründliche Arbeit geleistet und nicht nur die US-Spieler und den Monster-Mist, sondern auch gleich noch die am Wochenende anstehenden Turniere mit garantierten Preispools aus dem System getilgt.

[flare Profil]

Im Prinzip ist doch fast jedes Spiel, dass es gibt ein Glücksspiel.
Skat brauch man auch Kartenglück, sonst kann man nix gewinnen.
Selbst bei Monopoly brauch man Glück, es sei denn, man mag es im Knast zu sitzen xD

[klausi Profil]

Poker ist eine Mischung aus Glücksspiel und Strategiespiel und genau diese Konstellation macht es so
gefährlich in Bezug auf Spielsucht (viel viel gefärlicher als z.B. Roulette)

Nehmen wir ein reines Strategiespiel wie Schach. Gibt es dort Spielsüchtige, die ihr Geld mit
Schachspielen (Spielen von Schachturnieren mit hohen Buyins) verlieren, wohl nicht soviele.

Und bei einem reinen Glücksspiel wie z.B. Roulette ist die Suchtgefahr doch ganz anders gelagert als
bei Poker, das Wesen von Roulette wird doch ganz anders erfasst vom Spieler als Poker.

[the mind Profil]

bei party sieht man auch gar nicht mehr wie "viele" spieler gerade online sind

[the mind Profil]

partygaming sollte sich m.e. überlegen ein börsen-delisting anzustreben :chin;, dann klappts vielleicht auch wieder mit den us-boys.

[Cashmandt Profil Website]

bei party sieht man auch gar nicht mehr wie "viele" spieler gerade online sind

dazu hab ich das gefunden:

Players walk away as US law wipes out 90% of PartyGaming's poker revenue

Simon Bowers
Tuesday October 17, 2006
The Guardian

Shares in PartyGaming plunged 13% yesterday after analysts suggested its exit from the US on Friday in the face of new anti-gambling legislation may have wiped up to 90% off revenues from the online operator's PartyPoker business at a stroke.

Investor fears of a collapse in player numbers and liquidity on PartyPoker.com were exacerbated by the group's decision to remove from the site a ticker advertising the number of virtual tables in use and the number of players online.

...............


A spokesman for PartyGaming, which until Friday generated three-quarters of revenues in the US, said the player and table number tickers had been removed because it did not want rival operators to use this information against it. "We have taken the counters down temporarily. We are not going to give it on a plate to our competitors." He warned against extrapolating a longer trend from week-on-week comparisons on player numbers.

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1923942,00.html

[TheFolder Profil Website]

Hier ein interresanter Artikel, wo aktuell wieviel Spieler Pokern:

.......

Tests results from Dresdner were as follows:

Test 1: At 0750 GMT PRTY's market share in our universe was low as expected but still 10 percent. However, as European customers entered the site, its share rose significantly to 17 percent and actually overtook PokerStars between 1300-1700 GMT. By 2100 hrs GMT, as US players joined US-facing poker rooms, PRTY's relative market share began to fall from its peak of 17 percent to 15 percent by 2100 hrs, although still roughly double the third largest site, Full Tilt Poker. FTP still accepts US business.

Test 2: Peak playing numbers (again cash games) during a 24-hour period have fallen from roughly 14,000 to ca. 7,000 on PartyPoker. Given that the new peak represents the old low, our estimate of a ca. 70-75 percent drop in revenues is consistent with this trend.

PokerStars.com regular Sunday Million tournament set a new participation record, whilst PartyPoker.com cancelled its Sunday Million tournament in the first weekend after the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA) became law.

PokerStars saw a record 6 157 players Sunday while Full Tilt drew a hefty 1 127 players for their monthly $500 000 guaranteed tourney. Even UltimateBet, the smallest fish in the big Sunday tournament pond, saw numbers on par with their regular showing, drawing a respectable 896 entrants for their $200 000 guarantee.

....

Adding to the woes of US player-unfriendly sites, the online gambling portal Gambling911 reported this week that current Alexa rankings (an indication of traffic flow to websites) have shown that Titan Poker (which bans US players) traffic has declined whilst PokerStars and Bodog (both still doing US business) have increased.

Titan ranking fell from a three month average ranking at just over 8000 to this week's average ranking of 12000. Full Tilt Poker went from a monthly average ranking of 12 000 to just over 7 000. Bodog.com went from a three month average of just over 5 000 to averaging just over 4 000. PokerStars took a dramatic leap upon finally confirming they have no intention on leaving the US market. Their three month average was around 9 000 and this week was 4 895.

....

http://www.online-casinos.com/news/news3159.asp

[TheFolder Profil Website]

Und weiter gehts gegen das Gesetz:

Online Casinos Ban Clashes with Intl' Trade Agreement
19 October 2006

The legal status of the online casino industry in the United States was addressed by the world Trade Organization back in November 2004. Then, a WTO panel ruled that American federal and state laws regarding online casinos breached the general agreement on trade and services (GATS). The American tendency to protect its own land-based casinos, while making online casinos elsewhere around the world illegal, was criticized. These days, a short time after the recent online casinos bill was passed in Congress and signed by the President, another round is in place.

Following the legal developments, the WTO appeal panel convened again and upheld most of its previous decisions. The decision claims that the law discriminates between offshore online casinos and American based gambling operations. This distinction in the law is the cause for preventing online casinos from protecting public morals and maintaining public order, as the law at least claims to be designed to accomplish.

The WTO is addressing a dispute expressed mainly by online casinos based outside of the United States, in countries around the Caribbean, Europe and Central America. The government of Antigua and Barbuda in the Caribbean wishes to protect online casinos based on its territories. They claim that the law, and the WTO supports their claim, prevents banks and credit card companies from transmitting online casino gambling funds, essentially targeting foreign online casinos. As such, the law is an unfair trade act on a global scale.

http://www.onlinecasinoreports.com/news ... sp?id=1387